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"I Pledge Allegiance to the Flag of the..." (A Basic Worldview Observation)

Before I get into the topic of this post, I want to say I'm sorry for bugging everyone by trying to get you all to post on here. Like I have said, it is my favorite thing to do theology, so I get passionate about it. I am just going to keep posting and assume someone is listening, so pleaase sit back and enjoy. I have also been told that I should start podcasting with my web cam...... I'll think about it....
(this one is going to be another long one which has many layers)
Within the past decade there has been a lot of fighting between Christians and the rest of the United States about taking God out of the Pledge of Allegiance. I am not sure how seriously any of you have debated this, but I have always just listened with intrigue to all sides. I understand both sides and never really cared about the issue that much...... until recently. I may have taken interest in a far different way than I have heard anyone else talk about though.
Point number 1: "You shall have no other gods than me". I think that this may sound unrelated to many of you, but let me explain. God is a jealous god, and he demands that you ultimately serve no one but him. This includes idols, money, ideas, actions, and so on..... dealing with this topic however the object that I am speaking of is the flag of the United States of America and the country itself; therefore I am speaking of "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands".
Do we as Christians understand what we are saying when we say this. whether the sentence has "under God" or not in it, we are pledging allegiance not to God, but to the flag and to America. Do we not see the hypocracy in this? Since God has commanded us to serve only him, in essence to pledge ourselves to him alone....., what are we thinking when we say this thing?
Ok, that is only the beginning of what I have to say, it is a much bigger problem than it seems like right now.
Point number 2: In most of the prophetic books in the Bible, especially Jeremiah, we see a picture of the Hebrew people who are not right with God. One of the main issues that God has with them in the book of Jeremiah has to do with nationalism and patriotism. Let me explain. Throughout the times of Jeremiah's prophecies the "people of God" continued to say that their nation was God's chosen nation and that they were the chosen people. However, God's words through Jeremiah told these people that although they say that their nation and people were God's, they are serving other gods, they are worshipping idols in God's temple, and that this was not acceptable!!! The mindset of these people were that because God started out Israel as his chosen country and because the Hebrew people were "the people", any choices that they made must be ordained by God. Therefore the mindset of the people was that anything that Israel did as a nation must be God's decision and anything that the Hebrew people collectively agreed upon must be God's word.
Now I could tie this into the fences thing (collective agreement making up what is right), and I could also tie this into the interpretation of the Bible (again collective agreement on what the Bible is and says), but for this post these things are not the point. the point is that we have historical information in the Bible which teaches us not to hold our nations so highly just because we say that God has chosen us or because we say that our nation was founded on the word of God.
Point number 3: Now if we take point number 1 and point number 2 together (as well as looking at the historical facts about.... the tower of Babyl, The Roman Empire, and so on...) we can see that God does not take kindly to nations thinking that they run the show. God does not like it when people take their allegiance off of him and choose to put their trust in ideologies and philosophies (like democracy, capitalism, American freedom, the constitution, the declaration of independence....). God has in the past destroyed nations, created diasporas, killed people, and turned his back on people temporarily because of these things (please read Jeremiah if you don't believe me. God chose to not listen to the cries of the people after they kept on rejecting his calling to turn their back on everything to love him). Yes God came back to his people, but only when they learned what was wrong with their ways.
What I am saying is that we are in serious trouble if we think that America is the solution to all of the worlds problems, we are in grave trouble if we pledge allegiance to this country whether it is based on God, or not, whether under God is in the pledge, or not, and whether we have a Christian president, or not.
Point number 4: Now to another serious topic. Many of you know that I am a pacifist, and that may be influencing greatly what I am about to write, but I still believe that it is what God is teaching me at this moment.
Because of this nationalism that many of us have, because we pledge allegiance to the flag and our nation, because we hang the flag outside our house more than we open the bible or pray, and because we trust in our country above most things in our lives, we are blinded. What I mean is that it seems as though for certain choices that our country makes, we as Christians are so willing to support these choices without thinking twice about what God says about it. We think that because this country is "under God", that our country's choices must be the best for our world. Now Christians do disagree on somethings, like abortion, gay marriage, and so on, but over time just like in the past, if we don't keep our eyes on God, the line will be blurred as to what God says and what our country wants.
The reason why I mentioned pacifism is because I wanted to talk about war. War is a situation where a country or people does something that ultimately another country or people doesn't like, and so the upset country retaliates with killing in order to get what it wants. Anyway you look at it that is exactly what war is, please try to tell me it isn't. Now lets take a look at this in a smaller scale. Let's say that someone does something so terrible and continues to do these terrible things that another person decides they have the right to retaliate with killing, not to mention that in order to kill that other person a few others have to be involved and get hurt an killed along the way. We as Christians would say that this action is selfish and motivated by pride and sin....... why then is it ok on a huge scale where thousands or millions are killed like in the case of war (this also brings to question capital punishment)? I will tell you that one of the basis' of this is nationalism and patriotism (which includes pride and selfishness).
Nationalism and patriotism to this country has blinded us to seeing the murder and sin that war is, even if our country has a good reason to do this....... aren't we taught that God is the Judge and Jury? Isn't God the one who is the one who is our savior and protector? Christians preach love and forgiveness, yet we support war with a passion, why is this?

Conclusion: I beg you to take a look at why you believe the way you do about these topics. I beg you to stop saying the Pledge of Allegiance... not because it does or doesn't have God in it, but because God doesn't want us pledging our allegiance to anything or anyone but him. I beg you to think about your stance on killing, pride, and war. Also, forgiveness, love, and the judgement of God and not us as the judge. I think that this post, again, will cause a lot of people to be angry and also to think hard. If you conclude something other than what I have said after rethinking and contemplating this seriously, then I have no reason to fight you on that choice. But, please do not do this without consulting our tool, the Bible, and the life of Christ.
I would also like to say that I think that this is the greatest country in the world. We have such a better life here then we would have anywhere else. I would not like to live anywhere else. I do however not agree with all the decisions that we have made, and the only reason is because of Christ, and my Christianity....... which this country currently gives me the right to follow. Because of this, I do not say the pledge and I do not hang the flag. I only have one God, and I only serve one master. I try to not judge, and I try to forgive, and I love all people whether they have hurt me or not. I pray and hope that our country and we as Christians would do the same thing. Someday if we do not, then God will pour his wrath out again like he did to Israel in the times of Jeremiah!

Comments

  1. Ok, Let me break the pledge down by definition. Pledge means solemnly bind a promise. Allegiance means loyalty, as to a cause. The United States flag is a symbol and a standard, not an idol which is an object of worship. United States of America is self explanatory. The Republic is a political order headed by a president. One Nation under God is self explanatory. Indivisible means incapable of being divided. Liberty means condition of being free from restriction. Justice for all means fairness for all. Remember what I said, that the flag is a standard. We are making a pledge to live by a moral standard, and to work together for the greater good of mankind being one nation under God. Exactly part of what God wants for us. We need to respect the Republic because God designed the way our government is set up. God created us because He wanted to show His love to us. We in turn show our love back to Him in part by working together towards a moral standard. As for the acts of war being a sin, I emplore you to read Ecclesiastes 3:1-8. What about David? (Warrior)also a man after God's own heart!

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  2. Hmmmm I understand what you are saying about the flag standing for something else, but are you pledging allegiance to that something else? Then I would say that you are not fully pledging allegiance to God. It is a touchy subject I know, but I have always thought that if I am going to do or say something, I am going to believe in it and stand by it. All I am saying is that we need to realize that God wants us to pledge our allegiance only to him! Again, not to America and not to what America stands for, not for what the flag stands for, but for God himself. These ideals that the pledge of allegiance stands for do not actually play out in real life..... America no longer truly stands for these things, and even if it did, they are still not God. We have to understand that if we were born in India or Iraq or Guatamala we wouldn't have to pledge allegiance to the ideas of the American flag in order to love God with all of our heart and soul and mind and also to love our neighbors as ourselves, since for an Indian, Iraqi, ..... America doesnt actually stand for what it says it does anyway. This is what I call a false idol.
    As for God designing the way our government is set up, I ask you what the heck are you talking about??? Who says that God had any hand in making this government, or a better question is, who said God didn't design the government of mid 20th century Germany, and then people (Hitler) messed it up. Well sir we have messed it up if God did have any role in designing our government.
    We do show our love to God not by working towards a moral standard, haven't you read the New Testament. We show our love to God just by loving him and showing our love to our neighbors.

    Let me take a moment to reflect upon Ecclesiastes and David. First David himself. Do you think David was a man? Yes, however he was a man after God's own heart. So since David was a warrior and went to war and killed people, it is ok to do the same?? How about this one, since David was a man after God's own heart, we should send our neighbor to death so that we may have his wife to sleep with whenever we want?? Moreover, whenever we see something we want, especially women, we should do whatever we can to get it because David did these things therefore I should!
    Maybe we shouldn't see David as the Hero that he is pictured to be, maybe we should see him as human.
    Ecclesiastes 3:1-8,
    a time to kill? (ten commandments: though shall not kill)

    a time to hate? (what was Jesus message about, LOVE!)

    a time for war? (all war is, is revenge, killing, hate, selfishness and so on...)


    These 3 things are all on the list in Ecclesiastes. I am under the impression that this book is a book of a form of poetry, and is not meant for moral instruction, but for self-reflection. Self-Reflection, which is a lot of what we are doing on this blog, is meant to make you think and rethink your worldview. This list is a list that the author sees in day to day life. These arent things that God has commanded to be so, these are observations from the author, just like the rest of the book. If not then I guess we must take it literally right? VANITY OF VANITIES, maybe we should say that this entire list that the author has written here is all a bunch of worthless vanities. So then, all the good things along with love is just meaningless!!! This cannot be so! We have to be responsible readers of the Bible, we can't just take it at face value, we much understand wha the text is trying to teach us, and just because it says that "war happens" it doesn't men that God wants it to happen.

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  3. OK, you got me on the Ecclesiastes thing. I never looked at it that way, but it makes sense.
    You made a vow to your wife, or pledge of allegiance didn't you? It is very much the same thing. Take in mind that you have to give God priority when doing so. Please don't misunderstand me. I am not putting the pledge on the same level as getting married. I am just saying that one needs to know his priorities with God when either of these things happen. I think the majority of America is still patriotic, and that we believe in God, and try to do the right thing every day. If we were born in another country I would never expect to say the pledge to the American flag in order to love God. That's not what I meant. I should have explained myself clearer about a moral standard showing love to our neighbors. Of course I know that we show our love to God and also to our neighbors. Sometimes I just don't say what I mean. Sometimes I have a hard time with that. I didn't mean that we should follow David to the T. I meant that we should learn from the good and the bad in David's life. We should focus on what God had him do and the positive outcome which came from his life. We the people of this world need to focus a lot more on the positive things that happen around us instead of the negative. Of course we need to never forget to use our discernment for the negative that is all around us also, but if we keep our chins up(literally)we'll be much better off. There really is a lot of neighborly love out there. We just need to think more positively no matter the situation. I do love all people myself. There is not one person that I hate. It's just not a part of my nature. Forgive, forget, love thy neighbor, and a lot of patience, and do it all with passion, that's my philosophy. Sorry, I kind of got off track there. When passion flows, it flows!

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  4. Thanks for talking with me one here. I am glad that you are passionate, it makes these conversations much better.
    The marriage thing is interesting. The only difference I see though is that best relationship and the deepest loving bond that two people can share is through marriage. God has given us this information and encourages marriage. However, if you read through the word of God, you find nowhere that it says you should share that same bond with your country. In fact, God teaches against nationalism, like I talked about in Jeremiah. Teaches against similar aspects of it in the story of the towel of Babel. teaches against it with the teachings against Rome and its rulers.
    Are you saying that I see the negative too much? Well maybe you are right. I don't think though it is because I am looking for the negative, I think that when I look at the Prophets in the Bible, they have the purpose of tearing down the current state of God's people, and also of rebuilding the people to be better followers of God. I also see that each of us Christians are called to a type of prophecy, not fortune telling, but speaking the word of God for change, not just for vanity and tradition.
    I will make a post about prophecy sometime. I am just glad you decided to get passionate about God in this discussion.
    One more question, take a look at your last post again and answer me one question again. With all the love we preach and forgiveness and caring for the opressed, and the sick, and not judging, Do you think that God supports war in any way?

    Anyway thanks for discussing with us. You were very helpful in helping me see a few different viewpoints.

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  5. Hello,

    I do not think that it is wrong to say the pledge of allegiance. It is not wrong to be obedient and loyal to your country. After all, the government is instituted by God Himself. We are to obey and respect it. I see the pledge of allegiance as no different than anything else, it could become idolatry if you place it in higher esteem than God. But then, so could blogging--making some kind of commitment to get a job, to take care of a family, etc.

    as far as war, yes, there is there are people that kill for no reason. but, self-defense is biblical. if you and your family were trapped in a room with a gunman that wanted to kill you all, and the gunman was about to shoot your children, you would do everything you could to stop him, wouldn't you? just some thoughts.

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  6. First, thank you for joining us "anonymous.
    I only have a few things that respond to what you have said that I haven't said already.
    I understand that supporting your country is not wrong, in fact I support our country which I have stated. I think that the issue arises when we are blinded by our obedience and loyalty and thus do not see the evils which may or may not be happening right in front of our eyes. Its just not smart, for one thing, and it means that we have actually pledged our allegiance to America without second guessing or responsibly and constantly thinking about the choices and actions we take as a nation....
    As for the Government being instituted by God. I don't know why we think things like this, maybe it is because the Bible says that the leaders of nations have been put in place by God. That means George Washington, Fidel Castro, Saddaam Hussain, Adolf Hitler, George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, Kim Jong IL (however you spell it), John F. Kennedy, Nero, Louis XIV, Herod and the list goes on..... I think all of you can see the point I am making. Again I say, America is not special, we are the same as Israel, as Rome, as any nation. We fail and we take our eyes off of God, and that angers him, whether he instituted our government or not, and that means he can take our government out as well.
    Please don't get me wrong when I ask you.... Where the heck do you get the idea that self defense is in the Bible? I am going to make an entire post about pacifism, but here is a little bit of it.
    First the most powerful weapon we have is our tongue (biblically). Second we are to apply the armor of God and guess what the sword is, it is the holy spirit and the word of God (not a worldly weapon) (Ephesians). Third, have we ever heard of turn the other cheek, I think Jesus said something like this. How about our enemies our not of this world? Oh and the big ones, You shall not kill (unless you are going to be killed?), Love your neighbor as yourself (you don't want to die so you shouldnt then make your enemy die).
    I am not sure that I would act aggressively in a hostage situation. I aam sure though that I have the word of God, I have my faith, I have the power of God, and I have my tongue which with the holy spirit can defeat anything that stands against me...... the question is....do we have enough faith to trust God that violence doesnt have to be used... only his hand has to move in a situation!!!!!

    Thanks again for your post. Keep on posting I appreciate your input to our discussions.

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  7. WOW!! It's time to read the truth and get back to the basics. There's a lot of fences that have really got in our way and distorted our view of how society should be. This is really good food for the mind. You seriously need to start writing a book, or a commentary in a major newspaper or magazine!!

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  8. Thanks, honestly I just try to read the Bible with an free mind. It has been told to me that we all have our lenses on when we read the Bible. The more we realize this the easier it is to try and view it without wearing any lenses that could distort God's truth. Not to mention we wear these same Lenses to view our culture and the world. If we take them off we realize many things which we were blind to before.
    My goal actually would be someday to write, not sure for who or for what, but it would be fun!!! Thanks for your encouragement. You should create a name on here and continue to post your thoughts with us. We'll have a great time learning together!
    Thanks Again.

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  9. Sorry, it has been awhile since I spoke. You previously addressed me as anonymous, but as my blog name you can call me Q. I am no theologian, so forgive me if I am not always clear. The government issue is a detailed discussion in itself, but I would rather focus on the self-defense issue for the time being.

    I think there are several Biblical principles that come into play when it comes to whether or not to use self-defense. The greatest of these is Christian love. In the striking statements of Scripture, including the "Beautitudes," it is not necessarily to be seen as legal requirements and mechanical actions only to be used in a rigid manner. Moreso, it refers to the attitude a Christian is to partake in against those who hate or hurt them. The wider context of Scripture and its overarching theme of love should be considered in this discussion. At all times we are to love our enemies. If this involves withtaking abuse and using it as a tool teach the abuser than so be it. However, sometimes, the most loving thing to do would be to stop them and to show the abuser what their doing is wrong and use it as a teaching moment, but all out of an attitude of love. Self-defense is sometimes the most loving thing to do. The topic of self defense is a matter of casuistry. The child of God can apply principles depending on the specific situation, and this may vary from person to person as well as situation to situation. In quoting a person I trust, they said of Jesus and Paul, "They always acted in love. The often allowed themselves to be wronged. They sometimes defended or protected themselves."


    I am willing to discuss more if you so wish.

    ~Q

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  10. Very intersting Q. Thanks for joining us.
    I think you know that I would agree that Love must penetrate everything that we do if we are to live as followers of Jesus.
    The only question I would have of you is what is the point where self-defense becomes pride, self righteousness, and thus falls away from the love of the enemy?
    We cannot be trusted with that decision I believe, because as soon as we are trusted with it..... it immediately becomes about ourselves...... until we are fully redeemed by God. Then in fact it is not us that makes the decision, it is truly God working through us.
    The violence and war in the Bible that is used to argue against my viewpoints, can be brought to this point where we are no longer in control, but God is doing all the acting.
    Then again, this also comes to self-evaluation and also how other people may view the actions..... is it God acting or is it the person...... who can know but God himself???
    I suppose I choose the actions which I feel best reflect the actions of Jesus, and I am going to stick to that(not sure when Jesus or Paul physically defended themselves, let me know). Love, then can spring forth not as a feeling or an afterthought... but as the uncommonly known action and worldview!
    Thanks a lot, please continue to respond to this topic (and If I didn't make sense this time sorry, I am out of it.)

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